Those darn grey areas

John 15:4-5 (ESV)

 "4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing."

These are some verses that are bound to get us thinking. Apart from me you can do nothing? That's a pretty black and white statement. Nothing at all?

What immediately comes to my mind is the question of what that means about people who don't consider themselves Christians (perhaps even worshipers of other gods, atheists, what have you) doing good things.

I've only ever had a conversation once about this specific question once that I can recall (with another Christian), and essentially we just ended up exploring the possible, and quite plausible idea that non-Christians could be doing things self-righteously.

How Christian of us right? No discussion was had beyond that. But I'm kind of thinking that in regards to this, there's no point in playing games here. As much as we want the issue to be black and white, it's about as grey as it gets in terms of biblical teaching. I can't help but feel that if you truly think that every single person on this planet that doesn't consider themselves a Christian is only capable of and always doing evil - that you're pretty blind.

So what could this mean? What are your thoughts?

A specific 'theory' I'm entertaining is the idea that the Holy Spirit is a lot bigger than we understand, and could even work in or through whoever He wants, regardless of faith. God seems to intervene and do things that He wants all the time. Take speaking through a donkey, or even using an 'evil' spirit to corrupt Saul.

The evil spirit is perhaps the best example. This spirit was the opposite of good - yet God uses it for His purposes (which we know and are told are good).

I guess where this leads me is to question what 'bearing fruit' means in this context at all. Is this fruit the equivalent of simple accreditation? That is, does the difference between God choosing to use a non-Christian versus use a Christian to do something good, simply come down to whether or not they get to live to hear "well done my good and faithful servant"? As those that don't have a relationship with Jesus will perish?

Perhaps it's not about accreditation - as I don't really think the bible at any point gives the impression that we can do good things in and of ourselves. It's always God that does those things, and giving anyone otherwise (including ourselves) the credit is pointed out to be misguided: as we see in Luke 17:10 (Jesus talking)

"So you also, when you have done all that you were commanded, say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done what was our duty."

It's clear that it's not us doing the good here, regardless of what faith we have. To clarify what I mean - whether you're Christian or Pagan, I'm toying with the idea that you would both be equally capable of doing something good without God, at a chance of zero.

I suppose this will loop back to a discussion of free will. God is sovereign and could use whom or whatever He wants to do good - but are the Christians simply those that aren't just under his sovereign power (as everything is), but those actually looking to have Jesus work through them? That seems to make sense to me. What characterizes who a Christian is or isn't, is simply the relationship with God - not how God chooses to use or not use them. Having a relationship with God is coming to know Him, seeking His will having faith that He knows best and that His will is good.